Are recycling bins in England a right, a duty, or what?

Post by Ottavio Caruso
I live in an area where the Council delegated the collection of
recycling waste to an external company, which was eventually "sacked"
for not doing their job. So, for the last 6 months, we have been putting
recycling waste in the normal waste.
I am not an environmental fanatic but I this is this is a waste! Excuse
the pun.
I have been emailing the Waste department but they don't answer. They
don't have a dedicated phone number. The local Councillor has already
enough problems of his own (been suspended from his party for opposing
cuts apparently).
What I wonder is: do Council have to provide separate collection? Is it
a right? A duty? A liberty?

If you have access to a car[1] you could collect up your recycling and take
it to your Local Authority’s recycling centre, say once a month.

[1] some LAs don’t allow vans, or have restrictions on them.

--
Spike

Adam Funk

2024-09-25 16:04:06 UTC

Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

Owen Rees

2024-09-25 22:51:38 UTC

Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

Councils in Wales are required to meet recycling targets and can be fined
by the Welsh government if they miss them. The target this year is 70% up
from 65% last year. As far as I can tell this is a Welsh government policy
rather than UK wide.

Different councils use different systems so I suspect there is no specific
obligation to provide separate collections or any particular kind of bins,
just a strong incentive to do something that people will use.

The lack of action by a council in England suggests that they do not have
the same incentive.

Davey

2024-09-25 23:08:35 UTC

On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Owen Rees
Different councils use different systems so I suspect there is no
specific obligation to provide separate collections or any particular
kind of bins, just a strong incentive to do something that people
will use.

Ain't that the truth! I have close connections with three Councils, and
they differ wildly about what colour bin is for what refuse, and even
if a bin is required or not.
Blue, Green top, Brown, Black, etc etc.
Oh for some uniformity.

--
Davey.

JNugent

2024-09-26 00:16:27 UTC

Post by Davey
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)

And for terraced housing, oh, for some sensible policy of sending the
dustbin collection crews around the backs of domestic properties so that
huge ugly bins do not (a) litter the street scene 24/7 OR (b) have to be
pushed through the house on collection eve.

AnthonyL

2024-09-26 19:10:04 UTC

Post by Davey
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)

And I do wonder how much recycling is actually carried out.

--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

Roger Hayter

2024-09-26 19:48:18 UTC

Post by AnthonyL

Post by Davey
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)

And I do wonder how much recycling is actually carried out.

There have been one or two scandals where private firms where taking money of
councils for recycling materials, and then burying them. But that is against
the law, and waste handlers do have to be registered.

--
Roger Hayter

Owen Rees

2024-09-26 20:20:17 UTC

Post by AnthonyL

Post by Davey
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)

And I do wonder how much recycling is actually carried out.

A new paper recycling plant is being built in North Wales. Apparently the
UK sends paper abroad for recycling and imports new cardboard made from
recycled paper and cardboard.

I believe that glass and metal are also profitable to recycle but plastics
not so much.

AnthonyL

2024-09-27 11:48:39 UTC

On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 20:20:17 -0000 (UTC), Owen Rees

Post by AnthonyL

Post by Davey
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)

And I do wonder how much recycling is actually carried out.

A new paper recycling plant is being built in North Wales. Apparently the
UK sends paper abroad for recycling and imports new cardboard made from
recycled paper and cardboard.

Is this akin to the "green" biomass power stations that do not take
into account the carbon footprint of getting the fuel to the UK nor
the documented damage at the source?

Post by Owen Rees
I believe that glass and metal are also profitable to recycle but plastics
not so much.

Bring back the milk bottle and pop bottles with thruppence back for
each one returned to the shop.

--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

Andy Burns

2024-09-27 12:01:35 UTC

Post by AnthonyL
Bring back the milk bottle and pop bottles with thruppence back for
each one returned to the shop.

Scotland was planning to introduce "reverse vending machines" for that,
but last I heard it had been deferred ...

Davey

2024-09-27 13:11:19 UTC

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 13:01:35 +0100

Post by Andy Burns

Post by AnthonyL
Bring back the milk bottle and pop bottles with thruppence back for
each one returned to the shop.

Scotland was planning to introduce "reverse vending machines" for
that, but last I heard it had been deferred ...

Michigan, as well as several other US States, have them, it used to be
1 cents refund. It might still be, I haven't been there for a few
years now.

In California in the 90s, there was a scheme in operation, but no
information as to how to use it. I eventually discovered that it was
run by a private company, who had a trailer open one evening a week at
a local supermarket. Each bottle or can had a 5 cent refund due, but
the company took 50% of this for doing the job, leaving 2.5 cents each.
So you took a large bag of empties there, and received a magnificent
$1.50 in loose change in return. And they wondered why there was not
much use of the system.
And this in the self-proclaimed most environmentally aware State in
the Union.
At least Michigan's deposit was 10 cents, and you got it all back.

--
Davey.

Andrew

2024-09-27 14:14:02 UTC

Post by Davey
Michigan, as well as several other US States, have them, it used to be
1 cents refund. It might still be, I haven't been there for a few
years now.
In California in the 90s, there was a scheme in operation, but no
information as to how to use it. I eventually discovered that it was
run by a private company, who had a trailer open one evening a week at
a local supermarket. Each bottle or can had a 5 cent refund due, but
the company took 50% of this for doing the job, leaving 2.5 cents each.
So you took a large bag of empties there, and received a magnificent
$1.50 in loose change in return. And they wondered why there was not
much use of the system.
And this in the self-proclaimed most environmentally aware State in
the Union.
At least Michigan's deposit was 10 cents, and you got it all back.

Even the Michigan scheme wasn't perfect. I seem to recall that
supermarkets would only give refunds on the bottles that they sold. So
if they didn't sell a certain beer then the bottle was rejected and you
had to find a supermarket that did in order to get the refund that you
had already paid.

Davey

2024-09-27 14:38:12 UTC

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 15:14:02 +0100

Post by Andrew

Post by Davey
Michigan, as well as several other US States, have them, it used to
be 1 cents refund. It might still be, I haven't been there for a few
years now.
In California in the 90s, there was a scheme in operation, but no
information as to how to use it. I eventually discovered that it was
run by a private company, who had a trailer open one evening a week
at a local supermarket. Each bottle or can had a 5 cent refund due,
but the company took 50% of this for doing the job, leaving 2.5
cents each. So you took a large bag of empties there, and received
a magnificent $1.50 in loose change in return. And they wondered
why there was not much use of the system.
And this in the self-proclaimed most environmentally aware State in
the Union.
At least Michigan's deposit was 10 cents, and you got it all back.

Even the Michigan scheme wasn't perfect. I seem to recall that
supermarkets would only give refunds on the bottles that they sold.
So if they didn't sell a certain beer then the bottle was rejected
and you had to find a supermarket that did in order to get the refund
that you had already paid.

Indeed, that is true. But it was certainly better than nothing, or
even the California scheme.

--
Davey.

Adam Funk

2024-09-26 13:35:26 UTC

Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

Councils in Wales are required to meet recycling targets and can be fined
by the Welsh government if they miss them. The target this year is 70% up
from 65% last year. As far as I can tell this is a Welsh government policy
rather than UK wide.
Different councils use different systems so I suspect there is no specific
obligation to provide separate collections or any particular kind of bins,
just a strong incentive to do something that people will use.
The lack of action by a council in England suggests that they do not have
the same incentive.

I'm surprised, but I guess that must be the case.

Roger Hayter

2024-09-26 14:17:15 UTC

Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

Councils in Wales are required to meet recycling targets and can be fined
by the Welsh government if they miss them. The target this year is 70% up
from 65% last year. As far as I can tell this is a Welsh government policy
rather than UK wide.
Different councils use different systems so I suspect there is no specific
obligation to provide separate collections or any particular kind of bins,
just a strong incentive to do something that people will use.
The lack of action by a council in England suggests that they do not have
the same incentive.

I'm surprised, but I guess that must be the case.

Councils are still required to recycle waste and minimise landfill. There are
financial penalties for failing to do so. The OP's council will presumably
resume collecting recycling as soon as they can arrange to do so.

Merely an example of the huge number of laws on the subject:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/household-waste-collection-in-england-and-wales/

--
Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter

2024-09-26 14:24:46 UTC

Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

Councils in Wales are required to meet recycling targets and can be fined
by the Welsh government if they miss them. The target this year is 70% up
from 65% last year. As far as I can tell this is a Welsh government policy
rather than UK wide.
Different councils use different systems so I suspect there is no specific
obligation to provide separate collections or any particular kind of bins,
just a strong incentive to do something that people will use.
The lack of action by a council in England suggests that they do not have
the same incentive.

I'm surprised, but I guess that must be the case.

Councils are still required to recycle waste and minimise landfill. There are
financial penalties for failing to do so. The OP's council will presumably
resume collecting recycling as soon as they can arrange to do so.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/household-waste-collection-in-england-and-wales/

Interestingly, before Brexit council and government politicians used to
routinely blame the "Common Market landfill tax" for the burden of recycling.
But since Brexit there has been no sign of slowing down the production of yet
more Sovereign Nation recycling legislation being brought in. So perhaps this
was merely an example of thoughtlessly blaming the EU for what politicians
wanted to do anyway.

--
Roger Hayter

Adam Funk

2024-09-26 17:43:13 UTC

Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

Councils in Wales are required to meet recycling targets and can be fined
by the Welsh government if they miss them. The target this year is 70% up
from 65% last year. As far as I can tell this is a Welsh government policy
rather than UK wide.
Different councils use different systems so I suspect there is no specific
obligation to provide separate collections or any particular kind of bins,
just a strong incentive to do something that people will use.
The lack of action by a council in England suggests that they do not have
the same incentive.

I'm surprised, but I guess that must be the case.

Councils are still required to recycle waste and minimise landfill. There are
financial penalties for failing to do so. The OP's council will presumably
resume collecting recycling as soon as they can arrange to do so.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/household-waste-collection-in-england-and-wales/

I've heard that called "policy laundering" --- another lazy political
practice that contributed to that stupid and self-destructive result.

(Similarly, politicians except the real fruitcakes know that
immigration is good for the country, including for business, but
pandering to the xenophobic rabble is easier than educating them and
gives short-term political gains.)

Les. Hayward

2024-09-26 21:03:48 UTC

Post by Adam Funk
(Similarly, politicians except the real fruitcakes know that
immigration is good for the country, including for business, but
pandering to the xenophobic rabble is easier than educating them and
gives short-term political gains.)

Those politicians (sadly not enough) who recognise that whist importing
cheap labour might temporarily help business, also realise that swamping
a small country already with a housing and services problem, might not
be quite such a good idea, are fruitcakes? I know many who would not
share that view.

Roger Hayter

2024-09-26 21:59:05 UTC

Indeed some don't. Some are sending their foot soldiers to riot on the streets
and try to burn down hotels. But honest politicians may well reckon that we
need immigrants to build more houses and expand services, and not least to
expand the tax base to pay for these actitivities. We have a lot of
unproductive old people.

--
Roger Hayter

Les. Hayward

2024-09-27 08:45:04 UTC

But the problem is that we can not go on growing for ever. Sadly they
are not able to make us more land! Were the over-immigration issue
resolved, there would not be the constant need to build everywhere and
the strain on services would at least be a constant, instead of always
increasing. Why do you also assume that old people are unproductive? I
am 81 and still provide engineering support to an ordnance disposal company.

Spike

2024-09-27 08:59:36 UTC

I think you just described a ponzi scheme based on immigration.

Post by Roger Hayter
We have a lot of unproductive old people.

And? Are you supporting some form of another Great Leap Forward?

--
Spike

Adam Funk

2024-09-27 09:31:46 UTC

Like most developed countries, the UK is now reproducing below
replacement rate. There is no "swamping".

Fredxx

2024-09-30 11:37:16 UTC

Like most developed countries, the UK is now reproducing below
replacement rate. There is no "swamping".

Can you provide evidence of that, taking into account all immigration?

Ottavio Caruso

2024-09-27 14:31:35 UTC

And what has this go to do with the topic? Am I not able to recycle my
waste because of immigrants? What am I missing here?

--
Ottavio Caruso

Max Demian

2024-09-27 10:39:07 UTC

Post by Roger Hayter
Interestingly, before Brexit council and government politicians used to
routinely blame the "Common Market landfill tax" for the burden of recycling.
But since Brexit there has been no sign of slowing down the production of yet
more Sovereign Nation recycling legislation being brought in. So perhaps this
was merely an example of thoughtlessly blaming the EU for what politicians
wanted to do anyway.

I've heard that called "policy laundering" --- another lazy political
practice that contributed to that stupid and self-destructive result.
(Similarly, politicians except the real fruitcakes know that
immigration is good for the country, including for business, but
pandering to the xenophobic rabble is easier than educating them and
gives short-term political gains.)

There's s difference between immigrants with jobs to go to and ones who
just come in the hope of a better life, costing billions in hotel bills.
Even the former will, inevitably, take jobs from locals.

--
Max Demian

Martin Brown

2024-09-30 17:10:30 UTC

Most charge extra for green waste collections already because it isn't a
statutory duty. The service gets worse each year and more expensive too.

Post by Adam Funk
Aren't councils required to hit targets for the proportion of
recycling to non-recyclable waste?

In theory yes or they get penalised for the extra stuff that goes into
the general waste stream but in practice I am not convinced.

I'm pretty sure most of what I put into my domestic recycling bin(s)
with the exception of metal, glass and just maybe some higher value
plastics ends up in the local incinerator for "energy recovery" as green
wash now labels it. They built an amazingly big one about a decade ago.

TBH There is no longer a viable market for paper or card as the cost of
handling it and its tendency to go mouldy if it gets even slightly wet
render it just about impossible to recycle from domestic mixed waste.

This isn't helped at all by wish-cycling by well meaning but uninformed
consumers. Even with a science degree the exact rules can be baffling.
Very few recyclers want expanded polystyrene (do *any* accept it?) for
instance but such common packing is still marked as "recyclable".

The whole thing is a bit of a joke with different councils having
randomly different local recycling rules and colours of bins for the
various things that they require sorting into them.

There isn't even a standard for the colour of the true waste bin.

--
Martin Brown

Adam Funk

2024-10-03 08:49:10 UTC