Yaxley-Lennon charged under terrorism act

[Jethro_uk]

For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.

Amongst other charges ...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london

Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

[Mark Goodge]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 16:18:50 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

The article tells you which part of the legislation he was charged under:
Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Specifically, paragraphs 2 and 5,
which say, inter alia that:

2. An examining officer may question a person to whom this paragraph
applies[...]

(which means someone entering the UK at a port or airport, as per the rest
of the paragraph which I'm not quoting as it's easily looked up)

and

5. A person who is questioned under paragraph 2 or 3 must
(a) give the examining officer any information in his possession which
the officer requests

So if you're detained by the police when you arrive at an airport or port,
and they want to look at your phone and ask for your PIN so that they can
unlock it, you are obliged to tell them your PIN. Mr Yakkity-Lemon appears
to have declined to do so, and hence is being charged.

Mark

[Jon Ribbens]

Post by Mark Goodge
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 16:18:50 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Specifically, paragraphs 2 and 5,
2. An examining officer may question a person to whom this paragraph
applies[...]
(which means someone entering the UK at a port or airport, as per the rest
of the paragraph which I'm not quoting as it's easily looked up)
and
5. A person who is questioned under paragraph 2 or 3 must
(a) give the examining officer any information in his possession which
the officer requests
So if you're detained by the police when you arrive at an airport or port,
and they want to look at your phone and ask for your PIN so that they can
unlock it, you are obliged to tell them your PIN. Mr Yakkity-Lemon appears
to have declined to do so, and hence is being charged.

This seems a rather oblique and unsatisfactory way of creating a very
intrusive criminal offence. It doesn't say anything about looking at
phones. If Parliament wanted to give border agents the power to require,
on pain of prison, unlocking of mobile phones etc then they could quite
easily have said so, and they didn't.

The bit about creating offences says:

18 (1) A person commits an offence if he-
(a) wilfully fails to comply with a duty imposed under or by
virtue of this Schedule,
(b) wilfully contravenes a prohibition imposed under or by
virtue of this Schedule, or
(c) wilfully obstructs, or seeks to frustrate, a search or
examination under or by virtue of this Schedule.

Claiming that refusing to unlock a phone (i.e. doing nothing) comes
under (c) seems rather unlikely, so it must be (a), which means that
the suggestion is that there is an *implied* *duty* to unlock your
phone on demand.

I would hope that the courts would throw this out on the basis that
criminal offences need to be created and defined explicitly, not
invented through creative interpretation of implications in statutes.

[Jon Ribbens]

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

The article says it's Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act (presumably 2000),
which is about questioning and searching people entering and leaving the
country. Honestly I can't find anything in it about being required to
unlock mobile phones or anything else for that matter.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/schedule/7

I think the RIPA disclosure requirements have to be justified on the
grounds that it is necessary for preventing or detecting crime, etc,
whereas the Schedule 7 powers don't require justification.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/part/III

[Pamela]

Post by Jon Ribbens

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-
held-in-custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

The article says it's Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act (presumably
2000), which is about questioning and searching people entering and
leaving the country. Honestly I can't find anything in it about being
required to unlock mobile phones or anything else for that matter.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/schedule/7

It's covered in this question and answer page:

"Can the police demand passwords for electronic devices?"

"Yes. If a person is being examined, they can be required to provide
any information requested, including passwords and PINs to any
electronic devices. They will commit an offence if they wilfully fail
to comply with this requirement."

https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/what-we-do/protect/schedule-7/

Robinson has presented himself at a police station, rather than being
apprehended entering or leaving the country. Does this Act apply?

[Jon Ribbens]

Post by Pamela

Post by Jon Ribbens

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-
held-in-custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

The article says it's Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act (presumably
2000), which is about questioning and searching people entering and
leaving the country. Honestly I can't find anything in it about being
required to unlock mobile phones or anything else for that matter.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/schedule/7

"Can the police demand passwords for electronic devices?"
"Yes. If a person is being examined, they can be required to provide
any information requested, including passwords and PINs to any
electronic devices. They will commit an offence if they wilfully fail
to comply with this requirement."
https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/what-we-do/protect/schedule-7/

I would hope that courts would not agree with that interpretation.

Post by Pamela
Robinson has presented himself at a police station, rather than being
apprehended entering or leaving the country. Does this Act apply?

Yes. He actually committed the offence when he was leaving the country
in July, but for some reason at that time they bailed him and let him
go. Now he has been arrested and remanded for that offence.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

RIPA has been largely repealed and replaced by later legislation.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

RIPA has been largely repealed and replaced by later legislation.

Yes, by the Investigatory Powers Act 2016 which is much the same rose by
a not very different name.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

RIPA has been largely repealed and replaced by later legislation.

Yes, by the Investigatory Powers Act 2016 which is much the same rose
by a not very different name.

And which section deals with "refusing to reveal passwords" (genuine
question - I spent months grappling with the new Act in Parliament
and I don't remember that issue cropping up).

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

Do you think that he might have a defence on the grounds that the secret
services undoubtedly have access to his phone already, and the passcode is of
no actual significance to them?

[Roland Perry]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Jethro_uk
For refusing to provide the PIN to his phone.
Amongst other charges ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/25/tommy-robinson-held-in-
custody-ahead-of-far-right-march-in-london
Thought that was a RIPA offence ?

Do you think that he might have a defence on the grounds that the secret
services undoubtedly have access to his phone already, and the passcode is of
no actual significance to them?

No, because they would regard it as "necessary" to have him reveal the
PIN before going down this pathway, and cracking the PIN on a phone is
more difficult than it sounds, especially if it's an iPhone.