Is 'Carafe' a Legal Measure?

[Colin Derr]

Hi,

My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.

Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.

Cheers!

Col.

[bigbrian]

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:40:11 +0100, Colin Derr

Post by Colin Derr
Hi,
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.

Its not a short measure, its a fixed measure in an outsize container.
There's no law against serving, for example, a half pint of beer in a
pint glass (as long as the purchaser is only paying for a half). If
they haven't lead the purchaser to believe that he's getting a litre
of wine (for example, by advertising that the offer is for "a litre
carafe of wine", then I don't believe there's an issue. I would also
imagine that somewhere in the small print, it refers to the fact that
the carafe is equivalent to a bottle, or even in some way to the fact
that a bottle of wine is opened and poured into the carafe, or do they
have wine on tap in some form?

Brian

[Colin Derr]

Hi Brian,

Post by bigbrian

Post by Colin Derr
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two.
A carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the
neck, and the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of
glasses that it fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead
of a carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong
here in the same way as if they served a short pint.

Its not a short measure, its a fixed measure in an outsize container.
There's no law against serving, for example, a half pint of beer in a
pint glass (as long as the purchaser is only paying for a half).

OK, fair point.

Post by bigbrian
If they haven't lead the purchaser to believe that he's getting a
litre of wine (for example, by advertising that the offer is for "a
litre carafe of wine", then I don't believe there's an issue.

A carafe is a well-known size. I wouldn't expect to be served a
mini-carafe holding a glass or wine, or a full-sized carafe holding a
glass of wine. A carafe of wine is a carafe full of wine just like a
jug of beer is a jug full of beer.

Post by bigbrian
I would also imagine that somewhere in the small print, it refers to
the fact that the carafe is equivalent to a bottle, or even in some
way to the fact that a bottle of wine is opened and poured into the
carafe, or do they have wine on tap in some form?

There's no small print, just `Two Curries and a carafe of wine for
16.50' on a blackboard in big letters. They don't specify the wine's
source. Perhaps when they started it was a carafe-full but now they're
economising.

Cheers!

Col.

[GB]

Post by Colin Derr
There's no small print, just `Two Curries and a carafe of wine for
16.50' on a blackboard in big letters. They don't specify the wine's
source. Perhaps when they started it was a carafe-full but now they're
economising.

Forgive my asking, but how would you know what was in the carafe if you were
drinking it with curry? Or was it a very weak curry?

[Fred]

Post by Colin Derr
Hi,
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.
Cheers!
Col.

If I was told I was going to get a Carafe of wine I would make the
assumption this would be a litre quantity, in the same manner I would expect
a "bottle" of wine to be a min of 73cl. My view is that you are being short
measured and they are probably committing an offence.

Whilst I would be reluctant to go the whole hog of involving trading
standards, I think I would have a quiet word with them.

IANAL

[bigbrian]

Post by Fred

Post by Colin Derr
Hi,
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.
Cheers!
Col.

If I was told I was going to get a Carafe of wine I would make the
assumption this would be a litre quantity,

You'd be in for a nasty surprise then, entirely of your own making.
There's absolutely nothing implicit in the word "carafe" that implies,
or should be inferred to mean, a specific quantity

Brian

[Paul Roberts]

Post by Colin Derr
Hi,
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.
Cheers!

From www.tradingstandards.gov.uk:
Wine must be sold in the following quantities:
By the bottle By the glass in 125ml or 175ml quantities By the carafe in
250ml, 500ml, 750ml or 1 litre quantities These quantities must be made
clear to customers on a notice, wine list or menu that is easy to read.

[Daytona]

Post by Paul Roberts
By the bottle By the glass in 125ml or 175ml quantities By the carafe in
250ml, 500ml, 750ml or 1 litre quantities These quantities must be made
clear to customers on a notice, wine list or menu that is easy to read.

Excellent research !

I was about to quote the OED - "a glass container for water or wine,
esp. at a table or bedside"

Good to see TS on the case, countering any monkey business.

Daytona

[Gorf]

Post by Colin Derr
Hi,
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.

If they said a 'bucket of red wine', how full would you expect that to be?


--
Gorf


.

[Martin]

Post by Gorf

Post by Colin Derr
Hi,
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.
Now I'd be happy to pay the same if it was a bottle of wine instead of a
carafe, but I was curious as to whether they're in the wrong here in the
same way as if they served a short pint.

If they said a 'bucket of red wine', how full would you expect that to be?

within 1cm of the brim :)

should keep me going for about 2 days lol

Post by Gorf
--
Gorf
.

[n***@email.com]

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:40:11 +0100, Colin Derr

Post by Colin Derr
My local pub's offering a `carafe of red wine' with a meal for two. A
carafe is delivered, with a 1L mark on it near the top of the neck, and
the wine quite some way below it. Given the number of glasses that it
fills I'd say it was dead on 750ml.

I'm faily sure that as well as the normal 75 cl I've also in times
past seen "standard" wine bottles of 70cl.

I can also cite "Paul Masson's Californian Carafe" which seems to be
much the same volume-wise as a standard bottle but just in a fancy
shape: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/tremough.stores/calif.htm