Install flue on a party wall

[Laurietbone]

Hi,

I have a small detached house and one side of the house's alleyway is
mine but the other wall is the boundary of my house (the next alleyway
is the neighbours). I want to install a flue on my wall which abutts
the neighbours property but it will be the party wall.

There are no windows on either side of our walls (its just the alleyway
to take bins round) but the flue would protrude slightly into their
'air'. I also need to create a little dust as I need to install
airbricks on the wall as it has none on that side of the property (very
damp)

Its not possible to install it on my wall that goes into my alleyway as
by the time you open the porch door and the inner front door its only
five feet to the stairs.

Do I need permission ? or start to give them notice under the party
wall act? I know its the party wall but its such a minor change to the
wall and all the information I've found about it on the net talks about
serious changes (rebuilding, access, rerendering etc)

We have only just moved in and haven't met them yet and they are
selling their house (estate agent board went up today)

Any help much appreciated

[Nick]

Post by Laurietbone
Hi,
I have a small detached house and one side of the house's alleyway is
mine but the other wall is the boundary of my house (the next alleyway
is the neighbours). I want to install a flue on my wall which abutts
the neighbours property but it will be the party wall.
There are no windows on either side of our walls (its just the alleyway
to take bins round) but the flue would protrude slightly into their
'air'. I also need to create a little dust as I need to install
airbricks on the wall as it has none on that side of the property (very
damp)
Its not possible to install it on my wall that goes into my alleyway as
by the time you open the porch door and the inner front door its only
five feet to the stairs.
Do I need permission ? or start to give them notice under the party
wall act? I know its the party wall but its such a minor change to the
wall and all the information I've found about it on the net talks about
serious changes (rebuilding, access, rerendering etc)
We have only just moved in and haven't met them yet and they are
selling their house (estate agent board went up today)
Any help much appreciated

See booklet "Party Wall Act ect 1996" Explanatory Booklet
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131403

This doesn't seem to me to be a party wall because you only have party walls
in semi-detached or terraced houses, ie you actually share the same physical
wall.

In particular it says:

"It provides a framework for preventing and resolving disputes in relation
to party walls, boundary walls and excavations near neighbouring buildings.
It is based on some tried and tested provisions of the London Building Acts,
which applied in inner London for many decades before the Act came into
force.
Anyone intending to carry out work (anywhere in England and Wales) of the
kinds described in the Act must give Adjoining Owners notice of their
intentions."

You can always go and have a word with your Council Planning Dept.

Nick

[Peter Crosland]

Post by Laurietbone
I have a small detached house and one side of the house's alleyway is
mine but the other wall is the boundary of my house (the next alleyway
is the neighbours). I want to install a flue on my wall which abutts
the neighbours property but it will be the party wall.
There are no windows on either side of our walls (its just the alleyway
to take bins round) but the flue would protrude slightly into their
'air'. I also need to create a little dust as I need to install
airbricks on the wall as it has none on that side of the property (very
damp)

If the flue will protrude into their "air" i.e. over their proerty then you
cannot do it without their permission because it is tresspass.

Post by Laurietbone
Its not possible to install it on my wall that goes into my alleyway as
by the time you open the porch door and the inner front door its only
five feet to the stairs.
Do I need permission ? or start to give them notice under the party
wall act? I know its the party wall but its such a minor change to the
wall and all the information I've found about it on the net talks about
serious changes (rebuilding, access, rerendering etc)
We have only just moved in and haven't met them yet and they are
selling their house (estate agent board went up today)

It is not a party wall matter AFAICS. The first thing would be to talk to
your neighbour and see if they will agree. If so you need to get is all tied
up legally and you should expect to pay all the legal costs for your
neighbour. It would be sensible to make sure that you can get building
regulations permission before you expend any money on such an agreement.
Unless it is a listed building or in a conservation area it is nothing to do
with the planners.

Peter Crosland

[Colin Wilson]

Post by Laurietbone
Any help much appreciated

uk.d-i-y has a couple of gas fitters who can advise

[PeteM]

Post by Laurietbone
Hi,
I have a small detached house and one side of the house's alleyway is
mine but the other wall is the boundary of my house (the next alleyway
is the neighbours). I want to install a flue on my wall which abutts
the neighbours property but it will be the party wall.

It almost certainly is entirely your wall and not a party wall. However,
that's not the answer to your question.

Post by Laurietbone
There are no windows on either side of our walls (its just the alleyway
to take bins round) but the flue would protrude slightly into their
'air'. I also need to create a little dust as I need to install
airbricks on the wall as it has none on that side of the property (very
damp)
Its not possible to install it on my wall that goes into my alleyway as
by the time you open the porch door and the inner front door its only
five feet to the stairs.
Do I need permission ?

Yes. If the flue is to protrude into their airspace then you need their
permission, which they are *not* obliged to give. The Party Wall Act
does not give you any rights in this matter.

Post by Laurietbone
or start to give them notice under the party
wall act? I know its the party wall

No it's not. Even if it were, you wouldn't have the right to trespass on
their space except for very specific purposes of which this is not one.

Moreover your plan contravenes Building Regulations, which specify that
a flue outlet may not be within 1 metre (IIRC) of your property
boundary.

The obvious solution is to put the new flue in the front or back wall of
your house, or run it up throught the roof or chimney. Especially if you
are planning to install a condensing boiler, which will pour out clouds
of vapour for several metres around.

Post by Laurietbone
but its such a minor change to the
wall and all the information I've found about it on the net talks about
serious changes (rebuilding, access, rerendering etc)
We have only just moved in and haven't met them yet and they are
selling their house (estate agent board went up today)

They will not be happy bunnies then if you start to encroach on their
space.

[Laurietbone]

Ok, thanks for all your comments.

According to the party wall act it is a party wall even though the wall
is wholly mine (checked thats its party wall 'b' with the surveyor) but
as you rightly pointed out that's not the issue. Building regulations
don't apply to the installation of the boiler as it would either be
fitted by a qualified Corgi or HETAS engineer and doesn't need
permission.

In my last house it was a staggered terrace so my boiler flue protruded
into their garden (ex council houses, gas boilers installed by the
council) because the front and rear walls were just windows and
unsuitable. All the way along the terrace everyones flue protruded
into next doors.

I can't unfortunately put it on my wall in my alleyway as it would be
too close to the stairs and therefore a hazard, the front wall is not a
wall (just a small window) and the rear wall leads to the kitchen.
There would have been a chimney through the middle of the house about
40 years ago, this was taken out and the roof replaced and turned
round.

We're also on a bit of a hill so it is possible for me to put the flue
up through the top of the room to the ceiling and then out and it would
then be about 12 feet above the alleyway. I don't want a condensing
boiler so no streams of smoke, just a wood stove with a vent. This may
all be irrelevant as it may be possible for it to protrude no more than
the roof line anyway (a few inches) and therefore not a problem.

At the very least we will have to go in their alleyway to sweep up the
dudt and mortar created by the installation of the air bricks.

Any other comments I would be grateful for and thank-you all for taking
the time to reply.

[PeteM]

Post by Laurietbone
Ok, thanks for all your comments.
According to the party wall act it is a party wall even though the wall
is wholly mine (checked thats its party wall 'b' with the surveyor)

If he said that, either he doesn't know what he's talking about or you
haven't described the situation correctly to us (or I've misunderstood).

The boundary of your property almost certainly lies along the outer face
of the wall of your house, so the wall is inside it and belongs entirely
to you. (My house is like this.)

Post by Laurietbone
but
as you rightly pointed out that's not the issue. Building regulations
don't apply to the installation of the boiler as it would either be
fitted by a qualified Corgi or HETAS engineer and doesn't need
permission.

Building regulations *do* apply to it. What you mean is that the CORGI
installer can self-certify that his work meets the building regs,
without haveing to get an inspection by the council.

However, if he does this, and it turns out the installation does *not*
in fact meet building regs (and it won't) then there could be hell to
pay. Your neighbour could report the breach of BRs to the council
building control department. They may send out an inspector who can
issue a notice ordering the whole thing to be removed.

Your neighbour might also report your gas engineer to CORGI for
installing a boiler contrary to BR and for filing a false certificate of
compliance. I doubt if CORGI would do much - it's all a cosy little club
for profiteers - but they might.

Post by Laurietbone
In my last house it was a staggered terrace so my boiler flue protruded
into their garden (ex council houses, gas boilers installed by the
council) because the front and rear walls were just windows and
unsuitable. All the way along the terrace everyones flue protruded
into next doors.

That's because they were all owned by the council, so no adjoining
owner's permission was needed.

Post by Laurietbone
I can't unfortunately put it on my wall in my alleyway as it would be
too close to the stairs and therefore a hazard, the front wall is not a
wall (just a small window) and the rear wall leads to the kitchen.
There would have been a chimney through the middle of the house about
40 years ago, this was taken out and the roof replaced and turned
round.

Maybe you can have one put in again.

Post by Laurietbone
We're also on a bit of a hill so it is possible for me to put the flue
up through the top of the room to the ceiling and then out and it would
then be about 12 feet above the alleyway. I don't want a condensing
boiler so no streams of smoke, just a wood stove with a vent. This may
all be irrelevant as it may be possible for it to protrude no more than
the roof line anyway (a few inches) and therefore not a problem.
At the very least we will have to go in their alleyway

You mean you would *like* to go into their alleyway. That'll probably be
OK with them so long as you give notice and cause minimum problems. But
if they get nervous they may demand compensation, as allowed for by the
PWA. So do ask nicely.

Post by Laurietbone
to sweep up the
dudt and mortar created by the installation of the air bricks.

Probably not a problem as long as you keep on good terms with them.

[Peter Crosland]

Post by Laurietbone
According to the party wall act it is a party wall even though the wall
is wholly mine (checked thats its party wall 'b' with the surveyor) but
as you rightly pointed out that's not the issue. Building regulations
don't apply to the installation of the boiler as it would either be
fitted by a qualified Corgi or HETAS engineer and doesn't need
permission.
In my last house it was a staggered terrace so my boiler flue protruded
into their garden (ex council houses, gas boilers installed by the
council) because the front and rear walls were just windows and
unsuitable. All the way along the terrace everyones flue protruded
into next doors.
I can't unfortunately put it on my wall in my alleyway as it would be
too close to the stairs and therefore a hazard, the front wall is not a
wall (just a small window) and the rear wall leads to the kitchen.
There would have been a chimney through the middle of the house about
40 years ago, this was taken out and the roof replaced and turned
round.
We're also on a bit of a hill so it is possible for me to put the flue
up through the top of the room to the ceiling and then out and it would
then be about 12 feet above the alleyway. I don't want a condensing
boiler so no streams of smoke, just a wood stove with a vent. This may
all be irrelevant as it may be possible for it to protrude no more than
the roof line anyway (a few inches) and therefore not a problem.

However small an amount if it overhangs someone else's property then you
cannot do it without permission.

Post by Laurietbone
At the very least we will have to go in their alleyway to sweep up the
dudt and mortar created by the installation of the air bricks.

You would need permission to do that as well.

Post by Laurietbone
Any other comments I would be grateful for and thank-you all for taking
the time to reply.

As I said before you need to talk to your neighbour and see if they will
agree. Remember that they are under no legal obligation to do so. I don't
know if you have asked the installer to confirm that the alley wall is the
only place but if not you should do so.

Peter Crosland