Public Consultation Process - statutory notice period?

[Martin Brown]

Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.

Provided they pay the fee they will have the hall at their disposal but
I am a little uncomfortable with their secrecy when making the booking.
I have a contact name and a mobile phone number for the "Hirer" but no
organisational name or landline number.

Google hasn't got me anything. I can see nothing up on either the
planning portal or the public notices (neither can the Parish Council).
Likewise in the local press public notices section.

Where else should I be looking and how long before the event must they
advertise what it it about, where it is and why they are doing it?

It strikes me as a bit like the opening of HHGG.

[Alan Lee]

Post by Martin Brown
Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.

(I'm on the Committee for our Village Hall).
Having had a number of people requesting the use of our Hall in the last
year, and had 2 events that were not as described to us when booked [1],
we now routinely refuse to honour the booking if the Organiser does not
provide us with all of the relevant details we want, and if we are not
sure, we ask for a £250 deposit, and make them aware that any incidental
cost / damage will be charged to the Organiser.
A few have stopped asking for the Hall after receiving our terms.

[1], 1 was a 'small' gathering for local friends, it turned out into a
mass party, where the Police were called to clear them out, no alcohol
to be served, limit of 50 people, around 90 turned up, all carrying
slabs of beer. Another one was a childs birthday party, which was ,
supposedly, for children only, but the parents all turned up, got
pissed, and set off a lot of very noisy fireworks in the garden.

[Martin Brown]

Post by Alan Lee

Post by Martin Brown
Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.

(I'm on the Committee for our Village Hall).
Having had a number of people requesting the use of our Hall in the last
year, and had 2 events that were not as described to us when booked [1],
we now routinely refuse to honour the booking if the Organiser does not
provide us with all of the relevant details we want, and if we are not
sure, we ask for a £250 deposit, and make them aware that any incidental
cost / damage will be charged to the Organiser.
A few have stopped asking for the Hall after receiving our terms.

We have been caught out once or twice which is why we insist on prior
payment with enough time to clear for outcome (had cheques bounce). We
used to insist on a landline contact number too - but that is no longer
viable since so many people don't have one any more. The wire phone
lines here are shockingly bad and mobile coverage is mostly non-spots.

My instinct from talking to the guy directly is that he is probably a
land agent or is representing a property developer. The times and date
range requested are consistent with the claimed use of the hall.

I think I have just tracked it down. They appear to be genuine and
called secNewgate a communications and advocacy group. Fancy website.

This sort of thing does happen from time to time since various high
pressure pipelines run near to our village but previously they have been
much more forthcoming about what it is that they are up to.

I might know a bit more after tomorrow since some of the big local
landowners will be at the Remembrance service.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by Martin Brown
Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.
Provided they pay the fee they will have the hall at their disposal but
I am a little uncomfortable with their secrecy when making the booking.
I have a contact name and a mobile phone number for the "Hirer" but no
organisational name or landline number.

Given that hiring the hall is a contract, I think you have every right to
insist that the client provides full contact details including their legal
name (if not a private individual) and postal address. Not so much because
of any disclosure requirements, but simply so that you know how to contact
them if necessary should they breach the Ts&Cs (eg, by causing damage or
permitting activities that the hall is not licensed for).

That information is part of the required fields on our town hall booking
form, anyone sending in the form without them will simply have it returned
to them with instructions to complete them before sending it in again. The
details we ask for on the form look a bit like this:

Full name of hirer:
Full postal address:

Contact name (if different to the above):
Contact telephone:
Contact email:

Type of function to be held:

Is music, singing, dancing or any other form of entertainment to take
place as part of the function?

If so, please specify the type of entertainment:

Will alcohol be consumed on the premises during the function?

Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Mark

[Martin Brown]

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by Martin Brown
Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.
Provided they pay the fee they will have the hall at their disposal but
I am a little uncomfortable with their secrecy when making the booking.
I have a contact name and a mobile phone number for the "Hirer" but no
organisational name or landline number.

Given that hiring the hall is a contract, I think you have every right to
insist that the client provides full contact details including their legal
name (if not a private individual) and postal address. Not so much because
of any disclosure requirements, but simply so that you know how to contact
them if necessary should they breach the Ts&Cs (eg, by causing damage or
permitting activities that the hall is not licensed for).

Several neighbouring VH's have had trouble with teenage Facebook flash
parties resulting in under age drinking and damage to the premises so we
are naturally cautious.

Post by Mark Goodge
That information is part of the required fields on our town hall booking
form, anyone sending in the form without them will simply have it returned
to them with instructions to complete them before sending it in again. The
Is music, singing, dancing or any other form of entertainment to take
place as part of the function?
Will alcohol be consumed on the premises during the function?
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Thanks for that Mark. Our booking form includes exactly the same
required information but people do just ring up and book the hall.
Mostly locals that we know and trust.

I'm fairly sure these guys are genuinely what they say they are. I have
now deduced an organisational name too. I'm hoping that they will fill
in a booking form in due course (and more importantly pay up).

What I'm most interested in is finding out ahead of time what it is they
are Consulting the Public about. I may be affected by whatever it is.

They must surely have to advertise the event in good time so that people
know that it is happening and where. How long prior to such a session
are they required to disclose the nature of the "consultation".

[GB]

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

[Mark Goodge]

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

Not as such. That is, we don't have a policy of vetting bookings according
to the nature or identity of the hirer unless they have been blacklisted for
previous abuse of the venue. We wouldn't refuse a booking for a
controversial comedian or public speaker, for example, just because they're
controversial. But if, in our sole discretion, a booking poses a higher than
normal risk of unacceptable behaviour on the part of those attending or
intending to attend then we have the right to indist that the hirer arranges
and pays for whatever security arrangements we think are necessary.

This is mainly aimed at private parties which involve free alcohol. If
there's a high probability that attendees will get extremely drunk, or that
the event will attract gatecrashers (and they're often one and the same),
the then hirer is told in no uncertain terms to ensure that only invited
guests can get in and that those who are allowed in must be kicked out if
they behave in an antisocial manner. All hirers pay a damage and cleaning
deposit, and they won't get it back if there is any damage or if, for
example, there is vomit, broken glass, beer or other unwanted substance on
the floor at the end of the event. And if the bad behaviour is particularly
egregious then the hirer will go on the blacklist.

Mark

[GB]

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

Not as such. That is, we don't have a policy of vetting bookings according
to the nature or identity of the hirer unless they have been blacklisted for
previous abuse of the venue. We wouldn't refuse a booking for a
controversial comedian or public speaker, for example, just because they're
controversial. But if, in our sole discretion, a booking poses a higher than
normal risk of unacceptable behaviour on the part of those attending or
intending to attend then we have the right to indist that the hirer arranges
and pays for whatever security arrangements we think are necessary.

So, you'd happily hire the hall to the present day equivalent of Oswald
Moseley, provided he could satisfy you he'd have enough thugs on hand to
pulverise any protesters before much damage is done? :)

[Jon Ribbens]

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the
right to stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and
contact details of stewards who will be on the premises at all
times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

Not as such. That is, we don't have a policy of vetting bookings
according to the nature or identity of the hirer unless they have
been blacklisted for previous abuse of the venue. We wouldn't refuse
a booking for a controversial comedian or public speaker, for
example, just because they're controversial. But if, in our sole
discretion, a booking poses a higher than normal risk of unacceptable
behaviour on the part of those attending or intending to attend then
we have the right to indist that the hirer arranges and pays for
whatever security arrangements we think are necessary.

So, you'd happily hire the hall to the present day equivalent of Oswald
Moseley, provided he could satisfy you he'd have enough thugs on hand to
pulverise any protesters before much damage is done? :)

Given Mark is a Tory councillor, it seems rather unlikely that he would
refuse to hire the hall to the Tory Party.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

Not as such. That is, we don't have a policy of vetting bookings according
to the nature or identity of the hirer unless they have been blacklisted for
previous abuse of the venue. We wouldn't refuse a booking for a
controversial comedian or public speaker, for example, just because they're
controversial. But if, in our sole discretion, a booking poses a higher than
normal risk of unacceptable behaviour on the part of those attending or
intending to attend then we have the right to indist that the hirer arranges
and pays for whatever security arrangements we think are necessary.

So, you'd happily hire the hall to the present day equivalent of Oswald
Moseley, provided he could satisfy you he'd have enough thugs on hand to
pulverise any protesters before much damage is done? :)

That's not quite how I'd put it, of course. But, in principle, yes, we'd
hire the hall to an extremist political speaker provided we were satisfied
that there was no unacceptable risk of damage to the hall. It's up to the
police, not us, to make decisions on things like potential public disorder.

Mark

[JNugent]

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

I have heard that some parish councils and parish hall custodians will
not allow political meetings organised by certain organisations.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by JNugent

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

I have heard that some parish councils and parish hall custodians will
not allow political meetings organised by certain organisations.

I'm also one of the trustees of a community centre, which won't allow
political parties or political organisations to hire rooms. But that's
applied across the board, it isn't a restriction on a subset of them. The
main reason for that rule is to avoid the centre appearing in any form of
party political media, even if it's something as innocuous as a social media
photo of a local party branch quiz night. And that in turn is because, as a
charity, the centre relies on grants and fundraising and any visible link to
a political organisation could jeopardise that.

Mark

[GB]

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by JNugent

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

I have heard that some parish councils and parish hall custodians will
not allow political meetings organised by certain organisations.

I'm also one of the trustees of a community centre, which won't allow
political parties or political organisations to hire rooms. But that's
applied across the board, it isn't a restriction on a subset of them. The
main reason for that rule is to avoid the centre appearing in any form of
party political media, even if it's something as innocuous as a social media
photo of a local party branch quiz night. And that in turn is because, as a
charity, the centre relies on grants and fundraising and any visible link to
a political organisation could jeopardise that.

That seems consistent. Would it be illegal discrimination to allow the
mainstream parties, but not allow the local neo-Nazi party, say?

[Roger Hayter]

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by JNugent

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

I have heard that some parish councils and parish hall custodians will
not allow political meetings organised by certain organisations.

I'm also one of the trustees of a community centre, which won't allow
political parties or political organisations to hire rooms. But that's
applied across the board, it isn't a restriction on a subset of them. The
main reason for that rule is to avoid the centre appearing in any form of
party political media, even if it's something as innocuous as a social media
photo of a local party branch quiz night. And that in turn is because, as a
charity, the centre relies on grants and fundraising and any visible link to
a political organisation could jeopardise that.

That seems consistent. Would it be illegal discrimination to allow the
mainstream parties, but not allow the local neo-Nazi party, say?

I don't think political opinions are a protected charactersitic. Although
there are some restrictions on political campaigning during election campaigns
I don't think any of them affect venues.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by JNugent

Post by GB

Post by Mark Goodge
Subject to the answers to the above questions, we also reserve the right to
stipulate that the hirer provides us with the names and contact details of
stewards who will be on the premises at all times during the event.

Do you concern yourself with the subject matter of the meetings?

I have heard that some parish councils and parish hall custodians will
not allow political meetings organised by certain organisations.

I'm also one of the trustees of a community centre, which won't allow
political parties or political organisations to hire rooms. But that's
applied across the board, it isn't a restriction on a subset of them. The
main reason for that rule is to avoid the centre appearing in any form of
party political media, even if it's something as innocuous as a social media
photo of a local party branch quiz night. And that in turn is because, as a
charity, the centre relies on grants and fundraising and any visible link to
a political organisation could jeopardise that.

That seems consistent. Would it be illegal discrimination to allow the
mainstream parties, but not allow the local neo-Nazi party, say?

No, because political affiliation and opinions aren't a protected
characteristic. But it might still be controversial. Many people are of the
opinion that free speech, even of those they strongly disagree with, should
be protected.

Mark

[Martin Brown]

Post by Mark Goodge

Post by Martin Brown
Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.
Provided they pay the fee they will have the hall at their disposal but
I am a little uncomfortable with their secrecy when making the booking.
I have a contact name and a mobile phone number for the "Hirer" but no
organisational name or landline number.

Given that hiring the hall is a contract, I think you have every right to
insist that the client provides full contact details including their legal
name (if not a private individual) and postal address. Not so much because
of any disclosure requirements, but simply so that you know how to contact
them if necessary should they breach the Ts&Cs (eg, by causing damage or
permitting activities that the hall is not licensed for).

They were genuine and I can now I think answer my own question assuming
that secNewgate have done everything correctly and by the book the
answer is 10 business days prior to the event.

The public consultation is about a NatPower 1GW class battery energy
storage system Project Mowbray to be installed nearby. Letters about it
arrived in the post yesterday (a few people got them on Saturday).

https://www.natpower.uk/project/Mowbray/

I think that makes it a national infrastructure project which explains
why the hirers are such high level players and strict confidentiality.

[David]

Post by Martin Brown

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 11:47:59 +0000, Martin Brown

Post by Martin Brown
Our Village Hall has been booked by someone for a Public Consultation
event and they are being very cagey about saying what or who they are.
Provided they pay the fee they will have the hall at their disposal but
I am a little uncomfortable with their secrecy when making the booking.
I have a contact name and a mobile phone number for the "Hirer" but no
organisational name or landline number.

Given that hiring the hall is a contract, I think you have every right to
insist that the client provides full contact details including their legal
name (if not a private individual) and postal address. Not so much because
of any disclosure requirements, but simply so that you know how to contact
them if necessary should they breach the Ts&Cs (eg, by causing damage or
permitting activities that the hall is not licensed for).

They were genuine and I can now I think answer my own question assuming
that secNewgate have done everything correctly and by the book the
answer is 10 business days prior to the event.
The public consultation is about a NatPower 1GW class battery energy
storage system Project Mowbray to be installed nearby. Letters about it
arrived in the post yesterday (a few people got them on Saturday).
https://www.natpower.uk/project/Mowbray/
I think that makes it a national infrastructure project which explains
why the hirers are such high level players and strict confidentiality.

I'm curious if the quoted 1GW is 1GWh or what.

[Martin Brown]

Post by David

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Mark Goodge
them if necessary should they breach the Ts&Cs (eg, by causing damage or
permitting activities that the hall is not licensed for).

They were genuine and I can now I think answer my own question
assuming that secNewgate have done everything correctly and by the
book the answer is 10 business days prior to the event.
The public consultation is about a NatPower 1GW class battery energy
storage system Project Mowbray to be installed nearby. Letters about
it arrived in the post yesterday (a few people got them on Saturday).
https://www.natpower.uk/project/Mowbray/
I think that makes it a national infrastructure project which explains
why the hirers are such high level players and strict confidentiality.

I'm curious if the quoted 1GW is 1GWh or what.

So am I. I don't know what they mean by "1GW" of energy storage (sic).

It annoys the hell out of me as a physicist when ignorant journalists
use GW (a measure of power) to describe energy storage capacity.
According to someone in the know so do power distribution engineers :(

I suspect a bit of UPS specsmanship is involved here and it is either
1GW for 1s or 300kW for an hour or something like that. Lithium ion
battery technology stores 1kWh in 4kg so a 1GWh battery will weigh about
4000T. That's a lot of material to move along single track lanes.

If the plant really has the capacity to provide 1GW instantaneous power
that would be an injection current of 2500A at 400kV supergrid voltage.
The NS supergrid pylons are close by so they will tie into that.

For perspective 1GW is about half the output of the UK's biggest pumped
storage reservoir at Dinorwig (which can sustain 1.7GW for ~6 hours).

[David]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by David

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Mark Goodge
them if necessary should they breach the Ts&Cs (eg, by causing damage or
permitting activities that the hall is not licensed for).

They were genuine and I can now I think answer my own question
assuming that secNewgate have done everything correctly and by the
book the answer is 10 business days prior to the event.
The public consultation is about a NatPower 1GW class battery energy
storage system Project Mowbray to be installed nearby. Letters about
it arrived in the post yesterday (a few people got them on Saturday).
https://www.natpower.uk/project/Mowbray/
I think that makes it a national infrastructure project which
explains why the hirers are such high level players and strict
confidentiality.

I'm curious if the quoted 1GW is 1GWh or what.

So am I. I don't know what they mean by "1GW" of energy storage (sic).
It annoys the hell out of me as a physicist when ignorant journalists
use GW (a measure of power) to describe energy storage capacity.
According to someone in the know so do power distribution engineers :(
I suspect a bit of UPS specsmanship is involved here and it is either
1GW for 1s or 300kW for an hour or something like that. Lithium ion
battery technology stores 1kWh in 4kg so a 1GWh battery will weigh about
4000T. That's a lot of material to move along single track lanes.
If the plant really has the capacity to provide 1GW instantaneous power
that would be an injection current of 2500A at 400kV supergrid voltage.
The NS supergrid pylons are close by so they will tie into that.
For perspective 1GW is about half the output of the UK's biggest pumped
storage reservoir at Dinorwig (which can sustain 1.7GW for ~6 hours).

I looked at the natpower website and they have a lot of battery storage
systems being proposed, the Mobray project being just one of them. Would
be interesting with a few more technical details.

[Jon Ribbens]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by David

Post by Martin Brown
The public consultation is about a NatPower 1GW class battery energy
storage system Project Mowbray to be installed nearby. Letters about
it arrived in the post yesterday (a few people got them on Saturday).
https://www.natpower.uk/project/Mowbray/
I think that makes it a national infrastructure project which explains
why the hirers are such high level players and strict confidentiality.

I'm curious if the quoted 1GW is 1GWh or what.

So am I. I don't know what they mean by "1GW" of energy storage (sic).
It annoys the hell out of me as a physicist when ignorant journalists
use GW (a measure of power) to describe energy storage capacity.
According to someone in the know so do power distribution engineers :(
I suspect a bit of UPS specsmanship is involved here and it is either
1GW for 1s or 300kW for an hour or something like that. Lithium ion
battery technology stores 1kWh in 4kg so a 1GWh battery will weigh about
4000T. That's a lot of material to move along single track lanes.
If the plant really has the capacity to provide 1GW instantaneous power
that would be an injection current of 2500A at 400kV supergrid voltage.
The NS supergrid pylons are close by so they will tie into that.

As I pointed out when it came up last month, both power and total
energy storage are important figures for this sort of project. And
it seems that, for whatever reason, it's power that's usually treated
as the more significant "headline" figure.