Trams and other road users

[Mark Spice]

A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to trams
when the tram is sharing the road?

I ask this after seeing an altercation between a tram driver and a cyclist
yesterday. The cyclist was cycling along the road when the tram, which I
was on, came up behind him and the driver tried to pressurise the cyclist to
move out of the way. However there wasn't actually room for the cyclist to
move out of the way of the tram without mounting the pavement. Would the
cyclist have been legally in the wrong to continue along the road?


Cheers for any help

Mark

[Adrian Boliston]

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?
I ask this after seeing an altercation between a tram driver and a
cyclist yesterday. The cyclist was cycling along the road when the
tram, which I was on, came up behind him and the driver tried to
pressurise the cyclist to move out of the way. However there wasn't
actually room for the cyclist to move out of the way of the tram
without mounting the pavement. Would the cyclist have been legally
in the wrong to continue along the road?

Presumably this is similar to a situation where there is a shared bus &
cycle lane where the lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to overtake the
cyclist and other traffic lanes are blocked with traffic.

It would depend to a certain amount how long the cyclist would be holding up
the other vehicle. Anything more than a couple of minutes and it would only
be reasonable to pull over and let the tram past, but if there is something
like a red light coming up a couple hundred yards ahead there would be no
advantage gained by the tram in overtaking only to have to then stop.

[Tim Woodall]

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:00:18 +0000,

Post by Adrian Boliston

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?
I ask this after seeing an altercation between a tram driver and a
cyclist yesterday. The cyclist was cycling along the road when the
tram, which I was on, came up behind him and the driver tried to
pressurise the cyclist to move out of the way. However there wasn't
actually room for the cyclist to move out of the way of the tram
without mounting the pavement. Would the cyclist have been legally
in the wrong to continue along the road?

Presumably this is similar to a situation where there is a shared bus &
cycle lane where the lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to overtake the
cyclist and other traffic lanes are blocked with traffic.
It would depend to a certain amount how long the cyclist would be holding up
the other vehicle. Anything more than a couple of minutes and it would only
be reasonable to pull over and let the tram past, but if there is something
like a red light coming up a couple hundred yards ahead there would be no
advantage gained by the tram in overtaking only to have to then stop.

And it may be almost impossible for the cyclist to get out of the way
without dismounting first. Tram (and railway) rails are slippery with
grooves that will catch a wheel and throw the rider. When cycling you
should always attempt to cross the rails at as close to 90 degress as
you can manage. (level crossings that aren't at 90 degrees can be a
particular problem because rarely will car drivers appreciate that you
need to use the full width of the lane and will often overtake forcing
you to take the most dangerous line possible.)

A similar problem exists with cycle/pedestrian paths with those ridged
tiles every 100 yards or so. In somebodys (non cyclist :-( ) infinite
wisdom they are laid as "tramlines" on the cyclists side of the path and
perpendicular (like a rumble strip) on the pedestrian side. From a
recent thread on uk.rec.cycling it appears that the majority of cyclists
(who actually use these farcilities) will (illegally) cross over to the
pedestrian side at these tiles and then cross back.

I would suspect that grooves in the road cause similar problems to
motorcyclists but they are presumably helped by their wider tyres.

Tim.

[Mark Spice]

Post by Tim Woodall
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:00:18 +0000,

Post by Adrian Boliston

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?
I ask this after seeing an altercation between a tram driver and a
cyclist yesterday. The cyclist was cycling along the road when the
tram, which I was on, came up behind him and the driver tried to
pressurise the cyclist to move out of the way. However there wasn't
actually room for the cyclist to move out of the way of the tram
without mounting the pavement. Would the cyclist have been legally
in the wrong to continue along the road?

Presumably this is similar to a situation where there is a shared bus &
cycle lane where the lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to overtake the
cyclist and other traffic lanes are blocked with traffic.
It would depend to a certain amount how long the cyclist would be holding up
the other vehicle. Anything more than a couple of minutes and it would only
be reasonable to pull over and let the tram past, but if there is something
like a red light coming up a couple hundred yards ahead there would be no
advantage gained by the tram in overtaking only to have to then stop.

And it may be almost impossible for the cyclist to get out of the way
without dismounting first. Tram (and railway) rails are slippery with
grooves that will catch a wheel and throw the rider. When cycling you
should always attempt to cross the rails at as close to 90 degress as
you can manage. (level crossings that aren't at 90 degrees can be a
particular problem because rarely will car drivers appreciate that you
need to use the full width of the lane and will often overtake forcing
you to take the most dangerous line possible.)

Personally I find that it is possible to cross the tram tracks with mountain
or hybrid tyres but I wouldn't want to try with a pure racer. That being
said I have slid all other the road on several occasions, usually in the
wet, when crossing the tracks. The worst part is at the actual tram stops
where the platform means that you need to move into the centre of the
carriageway, and yes, car drivers rarely seem to appreciate this.

I jst don't know whether or not I am supposed to stop, dismount and push my
bike onto the path (as I am not allowed to cycle on the footpath) to allow a
tram to pass or if ,legaly, if not courteously, I am allowed to ignore the
tram and continue my journey on the road. It is partly because of this that
I use the main ring road to got to and from work rather than the advised
cycle route which runs on the tram route.

Cheers

Mark

[Mark Spice]

Post by Adrian Boliston

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?
I ask this after seeing an altercation between a tram driver and a
cyclist yesterday. The cyclist was cycling along the road when the
tram, which I was on, came up behind him and the driver tried to
pressurise the cyclist to move out of the way. However there wasn't
actually room for the cyclist to move out of the way of the tram
without mounting the pavement. Would the cyclist have been legally
in the wrong to continue along the road?

Presumably this is similar to a situation where there is a shared bus &
cycle lane where the lane is not wide enough to allow a bus to overtake the
cyclist and other traffic lanes are blocked with traffic.
It would depend to a certain amount how long the cyclist would be holding up
the other vehicle. Anything more than a couple of minutes and it would only
be reasonable to pull over and let the tram past, but if there is something
like a red light coming up a couple hundred yards ahead there would be no
advantage gained by the tram in overtaking only to have to then stop.

In this case the tram was only about 30 yards from a stop so it all seemed a
bit pointless to me. As a cyclist myself I will normally pull over, before
the tram driver hoots or rings his bell, if it is safe to do so but all bets
are off if the driver starts ringing and hooting without giving me chance.

My reason for asking if there was actual legislation is that I am going to
write a complaint about the subsequent actions (and language) of the tram
driver concerned as it did not appear to be professional behaviour to me.
If there is an actual law pertaining to this situation it might temper my
feelings somewhat.


Cheers

Mark

[Old Codger]

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?

The highway code says:

"You must not enter a road, lane or other route reserved for trams. Take
extra care when trams run along the road." This is in the RTA, sections 5
and 8

Referring to your specific question, the highway code also says:

"Always give way to trams". There is no reference to an act of parliament
so this is just a highway code instruction.

HTH

[Periander.]

Post by Old Codger

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?

"You must not enter a road, lane or other route reserved for trams. Take
extra care when trams run along the road." This is in the RTA, sections 5
and 8

Which RTA is that then, the I'm thinking of has something entirely different
as it's sections 5 and 8

Post by Old Codger
"Always give way to trams". There is no reference to an act of parliament
so this is just a highway code instruction.

However and very fortunately for the rest of us according to the RTA the
Highway Code although it doesn't have the force of law as such it can be
cited in cases of dangerous and careless driving, and guess what ... cycling
and one of the options under careless is "Without Reasonable Consideration"
for other road users.

It's common sense really, 40 tons of tram at 30mph, carrying 80 passengers+,
that has to follow it's tracks - should give way to the rider of a push bike
who can't be bothered to get out of it's path ... humbug!

It's not even very clever, all it takes is a stretch of greasy or wet rails
and the local authority has to spend a couple of hours scraping up cyclist
jam.

[Old Codger]

Post by Periander.

Post by Old Codger

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to
trams when the tram is sharing the road?

"You must not enter a road, lane or other route reserved for trams. Take
extra care when trams run along the road." This is in the RTA, sections 5
and 8

Which RTA is that then, the I'm thinking of has something entirely different
as it's sections 5 and 8

Apologies, should have been RTRA according to the highway code.

[Nobody]

Post by Periander.
It's common sense really, 40 tons of tram at 30mph, carrying 80 passengers+,
that has to follow it's tracks - should give way to the rider of a push bike
who can't be bothered to get out of it's path ... humbug!

bit like taking a knife to a gunfight. ;-)

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:00:37 +0000, Mark Spice put finger to keyboard

Post by Mark Spice
A quick question - do road users automatically have to give way to trams
when the tram is sharing the road?

No. The Highway Code advises giving priority to trams, but there is no
legal necessity to do so as a matter of course.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/27.shtml has the relevant details. Note
that 273 (entering a dedicated tramway) and 275 (parking in a tramway)
have legal force (indicated by the words MUST NOT in red), but 274
(giving priority to trams) does not.

Mark