Calendar Month's Notice

[Nogood Boyo]

What does a calendar month's notice mean?

If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?

I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

[Nick]

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

I agree with you - a calendar month from now is 10 February - as
opposed to 4 weeks' notice - which would be 7 February.

See http://www.ajproperties.co.uk/GeneralAdvice/TenantsAdvice.php

"The initial six months of your tenancy is a tie-in period, after which
the tenancy becomes periodic, you can then give one calendar months
notice. Notice must be given in writing and will be taken from the day
it is received in the office."

Otherwise it would say that the notice period would start from the
beginning of the following month.

See also http://www.i-resign.com/uk/discussion/new_topic.asp?t=1573
which just distinguishes between calendar months and weeks.

Having said that the calculation in the question seems to be wrong. 8
weeks is shorter than 2 calendar months (even including 28 February).

In that particular instance, the boss should be accepting 8 weeks as 21
April and not the 28 April. I think someone needs to do some maths
revision.

Nick

Nick

[Nogood Boyo]

Post by Nick
I agree with you - a calendar month from now is 10 February - as
opposed to 4 weeks' notice - which would be 7 February.

Thanks. Wouldn't you accept that notice given on 10th January expired
on 9th February..?

Hmmm... That would effectively be 31 days, if given at the beginning of
10th, but a day less if given at the end of the 10th... So perhaps for
practical purposes you're right..!

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

Post by Nogood Boyo

Post by Nick
I agree with you - a calendar month from now is 10 February - as
opposed to 4 weeks' notice - which would be 7 February.

Thanks. Wouldn't you accept that notice given on 10th January
expired on 9th February..?

The rule I've always gone by is, exclude the first day and include the
last. So when giving notice on 10 January, 9 February is the last day
of the one-month period.

Stu

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

Post by Stuart A. Bronstein
The rule I've always gone by is, exclude the first day and include
the last. So when giving notice on 10 January, 9 February is the
last day of the one-month period.

Whoop! I should have said 10 February is the last day of the one-month
period. Sorry.

Stu

[Nick]

Post by Nick

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

I agree with you - a calendar month from now is 10 February - as
opposed to 4 weeks' notice - which would be 7 February.
Seehttp://www.ajproperties.co.uk/GeneralAdvice/TenantsAdvice.php
"The initial six months of your tenancy is a tie-in period, after which
the tenancy becomes periodic, you can then give one calendar months
notice. Notice must be given in writing and will be taken from the day
it is received in the office."

I have changed my mind. I now think that a calendar month's notice from
11 January runs to the end of the following calendar month ie 28
February.

One month's notice from 11 January will end on 11 February.

I have found http://www.londonoffice.co.uk/terms.php though which says:

"1. If, __during the first calendar month of service__, you are not
completely satisfied with our telephone answering service we provide,
you may cancel this agreement immediately. We will then refund, in
full, the setup fee, deposit and service fee after deducting usage
charges (call/mail/fax handling and forwarding charges)."

This must literally mean that if I start the service today on 11
January I have only until 31 January to decide that I am not completely
satisfied.

With tenancies it is much easier, I would have thought for agencies
etc, if all tenancies run to the end of the month. I assume that
tenancies can start in the middle of the month but I don't know how
that would be invoiced. To deal with 28 different tenancy periods would
be quite difficult to manage except for the most organised.

Nick

[Mike Granby]

Post by Nick
This must literally mean that if I start the service today on
11 January I have only until 31 January to decide that I am
not completely satisfied.

It could also mean that you have until 28th (or 29th) February ie. you
must cancel before the end of the first complete calendar month of
service. While it's not directly relevant, that would fit with the FAA
usage I described below when talking about something have been done
within the last N calendar months.

[Nick]

Post by Mike Granby

Post by Nick
This must literally mean that if I start the service today on
11 January I have only until 31 January to decide that I am
not completely satisfied.

It could also mean that you have until 28th (or 29th) February ie. you
must cancel before the end of the first complete calendar month of
service. While it's not directly relevant, that would fit with the FAA
usage I described below when talking about something have been done
within the last N calendar months.

Interesting. Clearly something to clarify before signing that contract.

Nick

[Dr Zoidberg]

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the
beginning of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days,
depending on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't
mean the remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next
month..?

I always understood it to be to the corresponding day next month so if
notice is given on the 1st it runs to the 1st , 10th to the 10th etc

[Mark BR]

Post by Dr Zoidberg

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the
beginning of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days,
depending on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't
mean the remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next
month..?

I always understood it to be to the corresponding day next month so if
notice is given on the 1st it runs to the 1st , 10th to the 10th etc

So if you give 1 months notice on the 31st of January it runs untill
............... 31st March???

Mark BR

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

Post by Mark BR
So if you give 1 months notice on the 31st of January it runs
untill ............... 31st March???

Or if you give notice on 29 February it runs for four years.

There must be some way to deal with that. Though I normally see
official notice periods given in number of days rather than months.

Stu

[Alex Heney]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:35:02 +0000, Nogood Boyo

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

Unless otherwise defined, it means what it says.

The period from the day the notice is given to the same day of the
following month (or the 1st of the one after if the notice is give on
29th-31 January, or the 31st of March, May, August, October).

[ChrisR]

Post by Alex Heney
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:35:02 +0000, Nogood Boyo

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

Unless otherwise defined, it means what it says.
The period from the day the notice is given to the same day of the
following month (or the 1st of the one after if the notice is give on
29th-31 January, or the 31st of March, May, August, October).
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Bullets speak louder than reason.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

There is a good article on the meaning of time expressions and time limits
in an employment law context at
http://www.emplaw.co.uk/researchfree-redirector.aspx?StartPage=data%2f091001.htm&PageTitle=Time-limits%20%2F%20basic%20general%20rules

I think saying "calendar" month in legal drafting is otiose and potentially
misleading, since leads to the sort of question raised by the OP. "Calendar
month" originally distinguished from a lunar month, but no court is going to
construe "month" as meaning anything other than a calendar month (the
Interpretation Act 1978 defines a month as a calendar month in statutes, but
its definitions do not extend to private contracts). Even more irritating is
"calendar week" or "calendar day" which you sometimes see - what other kind
is there? I prefer to use "calendar month" when I am indeed trying to refer
to the entire month, such as "notice must expire on the last day of a
calendar month" - but it doesn't achieve much other than emphasis.

In modern legislation notice periods are often reckoned in "clear days", ie
neither the day of giving the notice nor the day of the event are included.
Often, too, you have to include a posting period if the notice goes by post.
So 21 days' notice of a company meeting may need to be posted no later than
24 days before the meeting.

Chris R

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

"ChrisR"

Even more irritating is "calendar week" or "calendar day" which you
sometimes see - what other kind is there?

A normal work-week, for example. In some cases if you just say "one
week" and there are weekends or holidays it may not be clear if those
days are included or excluded.

I've seen this more in the phrase "calendar days." For example one
California statute imposes a penalty on employers who don't promptly
pay employees who quit or are sacked, of one day's pay for each day
payment is delayed. If they are work days, after 30 days the employee
receives a penalty equal to one month's salary. If it's calendar days
the penalty is about 50% higher.

Stu

[ChrisR]

Post by Stuart A. Bronstein
"ChrisR"

Even more irritating is "calendar week" or "calendar day" which you
sometimes see - what other kind is there?

A normal work-week, for example. In some cases if you just say "one
week" and there are weekends or holidays it may not be clear if those
days are included or excluded.
I've seen this more in the phrase "calendar days." For example one
California statute imposes a penalty on employers who don't promptly
pay employees who quit or are sacked, of one day's pay for each day
payment is delayed. If they are work days, after 30 days the employee
receives a penalty equal to one month's salary. If it's calendar days
the penalty is about 50% higher.
Stu

I've not seen this usage (calendar days contrasting with working days or
working weeks) before. A day is a day; working days are a subset of days.
It's common for contracts to specify periods of working days, but they would
always say so.

Given the origin of "calendar month" as contrasting with "lunar month", that
the Interpretation Act defines "month" as meaning "calendar month", and
we've established that a period of a calendar month runs from a day to the
corresponding day in the next month, I don't think "calendar" is
particularly helpful in defining a year, week or day as meaning a whole one
starting on 1 Jan, 1st or midnight. As I said before, I think all it
achieves is an emphasis. One calendar year's notice, without more, would
still be construed as meaning the period ending with the corresponding date
in the following year.

Days are different: the legal presumption is that you don't split days, so
seven days' notice could be up to seven days 23 hrs 59 minutes or as little
as six days 1 minute.

Incidentally, a reference source (practicallaw) mentions that the rule
relating to months is set out in Dodds v Walker [1981] 2 All ER 609 (but I
have not read the case). It sets it out as:

"you take the numerically corresponding day in the appropriate subsequent
month or, where there is no numerically corresponding day, the last day of
the appropriate subsequent month... For example:
a.. A period of one month from (and excluding) 1st January ends on 1st
February.
b.. A period of one month from (and excluding) 30th or 31st October ends
on 30th November.
c.. A period of one month from (and excluding) 28th, 29th, 30th or 31st
January would all end on 28th February (except in a leap year)."
This source also confirms that at common law, "month" meant lunar month
until changed by statute in 1925.

All these "rules" are overturned if it can be shown that the parties to the
contract intended a different meaning.

Chris R

[Alex Heney]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:45:03 +0000, "ChrisR"

Post by ChrisR

Post by Alex Heney
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:35:02 +0000, Nogood Boyo

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

Unless otherwise defined, it means what it says.
The period from the day the notice is given to the same day of the
following month (or the 1st of the one after if the notice is give on
29th-31 January, or the 31st of March, May, August, October).
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Bullets speak louder than reason.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

There is a good article on the meaning of time expressions and time limits
in an employment law context at
http://www.emplaw.co.uk/researchfree-redirector.aspx?StartPage=data%2f091001.htm&PageTitle=Time-limits%20%2F%20basic%20general%20rules
I think saying "calendar" month in legal drafting is otiose and potentially
misleading, since leads to the sort of question raised by the OP. "Calendar
month" originally distinguished from a lunar month, but no court is going to
construe "month" as meaning anything other than a calendar month (the
Interpretation Act 1978 defines a month as a calendar month in statutes, but
its definitions do not extend to private contracts). Even more irritating is
"calendar week" or "calendar day" which you sometimes see - what other kind
is there?

It could be argued that a "day" means 24 hours from the start point,
whereas a "calendar day" means a period from midnight - midnight.

And a "calendar week" means 7 days, as opposed to a "working week",
which varies, but is usually 5 days.

Post by ChrisR
I prefer to use "calendar month" when I am indeed trying to refer
to the entire month, such as "notice must expire on the last day of a
calendar month" - but it doesn't achieve much other than emphasis.

Agreed.

[bcc97]

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning
of the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?
--
Nogood Boyo

I agree with other posters -- it means exactly what it says (i.e. a
month, running to the corresponding day of the next month).

However, if your contractual obligations accrue in whole-month blocks,
then the true or effective notice period will be between 1 and 2
months, depending on when notice is given. In other words, even if you
serve notice on 15th of the month, effectively terminating the contract
on the 15th of the next month, you might remain liable to pay for the
whole of the next month because you've had the benefit of part of it.

[tiscali]

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning of
the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

a calendar month means exactly what it says, the whole of either January,
February, March, etc. however due to confusion contracts may stipulate that
"cancellation period starts at the end of the current month".

[Nogood Boyo]

Post by tiscali

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning of
the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

a calendar month means exactly what it says, the whole of either January,
February, March, etc. however due to confusion contracts may stipulate that
"cancellation period starts at the end of the current month".

Funny how three of you have said "it means what it says" and then gone
on to give different interpretations... I thought the thread had died
after a few more or less concurring replies but now I'm not so sure.

[Stuart A. Bronstein]

Post by Nogood Boyo
Funny how three of you have said "it means what it says" and then
gone on to give different interpretations... I thought the thread
had died after a few more or less concurring replies but now I'm
not so sure.

Check back in a calendar month.

Stu

[Alex Heney]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:00:05 +0000, Nogood Boyo
<snip>

Post by Nogood Boyo

Post by tiscali
a calendar month means exactly what it says, the whole of either January,
February, March, etc. however due to confusion contracts may stipulate that
"cancellation period starts at the end of the current month".

Funny how three of you have said "it means what it says" and then gone
on to give different interpretations...

Just shows how ambiguous the English language can be :-)

[tiscali]

Post by tiscali

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning of
the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

a calendar month means exactly what it says, the whole of either January,
February, March, etc. however due to confusion contracts may stipulate that
"cancellation period starts at the end of the current month".

Funny how three of you have said "it means what it says" and then gone on
to give different interpretations... I thought the thread had died after
a few more or less concurring replies but now I'm not so sure.

The whole point is the addition of the word 'calendar'. If somebody asks for
a calendar day's notice, you would expect it to be an entire day and not
mid-day to mid-day. Likewise, a calendar year would be the entire year e.g.
2005, 2006, 2007, etc. It's the same with calendar months. The only reason
to put the word 'calendar' in there is to differentiate it from a simple
'month' which may mean from one day to the corresponding day next month.
American Heritage Dictionary says .... month (2): One of the 12 divisions of
a year as determined by a calendar, especially the Gregorian calendar. Also
called calendar month....other dictionaries concur ...Science and Technology
Encyclopedia: ..The calendar month is one of the 12 arbitrary periods into
which the calendar year is divided....Wordnet: one of the twelve divisions
of the calendar year...

Unfortunately, despite the dictionary definitions and logical differences,
many legal documents interpret "month" and "calendar month" as the same
thing (starting any day in the month to the corresponding day next month),
giving rise to confusion.

[ChrisR]

Post by tiscali

Post by tiscali

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?
If notice is given during a month (say, on the 2nd), does the notice
period run from when the notice is given/received or from the beginning of
the next month?
I've always assumed that a calendar month means 28/30/31 days, depending
on the length of the month concerned. Surely it doesn't mean the
remainder of the current month plus the whole of the next month..?

a calendar month means exactly what it says, the whole of either January,
February, March, etc. however due to confusion contracts may stipulate that
"cancellation period starts at the end of the current month".

Funny how three of you have said "it means what it says" and then gone on
to give different interpretations... I thought the thread had died after
a few more or less concurring replies but now I'm not so sure.

The whole point is the addition of the word 'calendar'. If somebody asks for
a calendar day's notice, you would expect it to be an entire day and not
mid-day to mid-day. Likewise, a calendar year would be the entire year e.g.
2005, 2006, 2007, etc. It's the same with calendar months. The only reason
to put the word 'calendar' in there is to differentiate it from a simple
'month' which may mean from one day to the corresponding day next month.
American Heritage Dictionary says .... month (2): One of the 12 divisions of
a year as determined by a calendar, especially the Gregorian calendar. Also
called calendar month....other dictionaries concur ...Science and Technology
Encyclopedia: ..The calendar month is one of the 12 arbitrary periods into
which the calendar year is divided....Wordnet: one of the twelve divisions
of the calendar year...

Not an unreasonable English language construction but it does not represent
the law. As the Interpretation Act 1978 says that "month" means "calendar
month", the two mean exactly the same for most legal purposes. The addition
of "calendar" achieves nothing at all, other than to alert the reader to the
issue. You then have to fall back on the cases and the intention of the
parties to the contract to decide whether, in a particular context, your
month is any period ending on the corresponding day in the next month, or a
month beginning on the 1st.

Post by tiscali
Unfortunately, despite the dictionary definitions and logical differences,
many legal documents interpret "month" and "calendar month" as the same
thing (starting any day in the month to the corresponding day next month),
giving rise to confusion.

As I have said in other posts, "calendar" month distinguishes from "lunar"
month. It is folk etymology to assume it refers to a whole month appearing
from the calendar.

Chris R

[Nogood Boyo]

Post by Nogood Boyo
What does a calendar month's notice mean?

Thanks for all replies. Very helpful. Should save £60 membership
subs..!

[Mike Granby]

One further data point on this, albeit not from UK law: The US Federal
Aviation Regulations (FARs) define several periods in terms of calendar
months. For example, you may not fly an airplane unless it's had an
inspection within the last twelve calendar months. What this means in
this context is that if the airplane is inspected on 10th January 2007,
you can fly it until the end of 31st January 2008 without any problems.
The logic is that the twelve calendar months that preceed 10th January
2007 are December 2006, November 2006, October 2006 and so on back to
January 2006. This may also be common in other US statutes, but that
would be outside my knowledge.

[tiscali]

Another example of something running on a calendar month principal is your
car's tax disc.