Tesla Cybertruck driver loses vehicle and is reported by police after 'legitimate concerns'

[Jethro_uk]

< https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/
tesla-cybertruck-driver-loses-vehicle-30801494 >

Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

Does this (admittedly poor) story suggest that Tesla didn't bother ? Or
that GMP are fairly incompetent ? I appreciate both can be true.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Jethro_uk
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

Don't know ...

This suggests you can temporarily import a vehicle into the UK, and
leave it on the foreign registration/tax/insurance

<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports>

And this suggests for a permanent import, you need to ensure it's
approved, pay import vat/duty, register it, tax/insure it

<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk>

I don't think Tesla have shown any sign of wanting to sell them in
Europe, so is approval not required for "visiting" cybertrucks?

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jethro_uk
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

Don't know ...
This suggests you can temporarily import a vehicle into the UK, and
leave it on the foreign registration/tax/insurance
<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports>
And this suggests for a permanent import, you need to ensure it's
approved, pay import vat/duty, register it, tax/insure it
<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk>
I don't think Tesla have shown any sign of wanting to sell them in
Europe, so is approval not required for "visiting" cybertrucks?

It seems likely that you can bring an unapproved vehicle here on holiday,
otherwise it would make life difficult for tourists. The standard of
journalism of the whole article is demonstrated by the weight of the car being
expressed in stones rather than tons or kilogrammes. I don't think even the
Americans generally express the weight of cars in stones. They would probably
use pounds.

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jethro_uk
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK
public road ?

Don't know ...
This suggests you can temporarily import a vehicle into the UK, and
leave it on the foreign registration/tax/insurance
<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports>
And this suggests for a permanent import, you need to ensure it's
approved, pay import vat/duty, register it, tax/insure it
<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk>
I don't think Tesla have shown any sign of wanting to sell them in
Europe, so is approval not required for "visiting" cybertrucks?

It seems likely that you can bring an unapproved vehicle here on
holiday, otherwise it would make life difficult for tourists. The
standard of journalism of the whole article is demonstrated by the
weight of the car being expressed in stones rather than tons or
kilogrammes. I don't think even the Americans generally express the
weight of cars in stones. They would probably use pounds.

Americans have zero concept of stones. Or 20-fl. oz. pints.

Which leads to that lovely US load of cobblers: "A pints the pound the
world around". Which encapsulates the US relationship to "the world"
perfectly. (as Greenland and Panama will discover)

[Clive Arthur]

On 17/01/2025 16:35, Jethro_uk wrote:

<snip>

Post by Jethro_uk
Americans have zero concept of stones. Or 20-fl. oz. pints.
Which leads to that lovely US load of cobblers: "A pints the pound the
world around". Which encapsulates the US relationship to "the world"
perfectly. (as Greenland and Panama will discover)

A pint used to be a pound (16oz) here until it was changed in favour of
a gallon being ten pounds.

And when you give blood, it's a US pint.

As my dad used to say, "A litre of water's a pint and three quarters".

[Mark Goodge]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jethro_uk
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

Don't know ...
This suggests you can temporarily import a vehicle into the UK, and
leave it on the foreign registration/tax/insurance
<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports>

But note the very first bullet point:

* you're visiting and do not plan to live here

Temporary imports of non-UK vehicles are only possible for non-UK residents.
That web page isn't exhaustive, there are other exemptions to the general
requirement which can, in some caes, exceed the 12 months limit (diplomats
and military personnel being the two main ones), but they all apply only to
non-UK residents.

Post by Andy Burns
And this suggests for a permanent import, you need to ensure it's
approved, pay import vat/duty, register it, tax/insure it
<https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk>
I don't think Tesla have shown any sign of wanting to sell them in
Europe, so is approval not required for "visiting" cybertrucks?

If it's legal where registered, and the owner isn't a UK resident, then yes,
one can enter the UK temporarily. But a UK resident can't import one, either
temporarily or permanently. Or, at least, they can import one, but they
can't use it on a public highway.

Mark

[Tim Jackson]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 15:16:32 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote...

Post by Jethro_uk
< https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/
tesla-cybertruck-driver-loses-vehicle-30801494 >
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

Yes. That's why it was illegal, and why it was seized when taken on a
UK public road.

Post by Jethro_uk
Does this (admittedly poor) story suggest that Tesla didn't bother? Or
that GMP are fairly incompetent ? I appreciate both can be true.

I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in order
to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track. Presumably there
wouldn't have been a legal problem if it had only been driven there.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Tim Jackson
I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in order
to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track.

A BBC article states

"GMP said the car that was seized had been referred to Operation
Wolverine, which was established in 2007 to target drivers
without insurance. The owner will have to prove ownership and
correct insurance prior to release."

Which implies the police are treating it as a lack of insurance, rather
than an illegal vehicle? Maybe insurance is easiest to approve,and if
they somehow get it covered, they'd quickly find getting pulled again on
e.g. C&U legislation?

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andy Burns
Maybe insurance is easiest to approve,and if
they somehow get it covered, they'd quickly find getting pulled again on
e.g. C&U legislation?

err, prove, not approve ...

[Martin Brown]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim Jackson
I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in order
to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track.

A BBC article states
    "GMP said the car that was seized had been referred to Operation
    Wolverine, which was established in 2007 to target drivers
    without insurance.  The owner will have to prove ownership and
    correct insurance prior to release."

Surely the person who was driving it at the time will have to prove that
*they* were insured to drive it. Once seized by police then the owner
must demonstrate that they have legitimate insurance to drive it.

Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is intended
to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians and cyclists
the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.

It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it is
heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent easily.

Post by Andy Burns
Which implies the police are treating it as a lack of insurance, rather
than an illegal vehicle?  Maybe insurance is easiest to approve,and if
they somehow get it covered, they'd quickly find getting pulled again on
e.g. C&U legislation?

Surely they would do both if it were applicable.

Much like they would for having some insane kit car with spikes on the
bumpers and James Bond style tyre slashers on the wheels.

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Martin Brown

[quoted text muted]

Surely the person who was driving it at the time will have to prove that
*they* were insured to drive it. Once seized by police then the owner
must demonstrate that they have legitimate insurance to drive it.

This is why ANPR for insurance in the UK is ... pants.

A car could whizz past an ANPR and be recorded as "insured" at the same
moment it hits another car and it emerges that the car *wasn't* insured
for the person driving it.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Jethro_uk

Post by Martin Brown

[quoted text muted]

Surely the person who was driving it at the time will have to prove that
*they* were insured to drive it. Once seized by police then the owner
must demonstrate that they have legitimate insurance to drive it.

This is why ANPR for insurance in the UK is ... pants.
A car could whizz past an ANPR and be recorded as "insured" at the same
moment it hits another car and it emerges that the car *wasn't* insured
for the person driving it.

I thought the 3rd party portion of the insurance would still operate in
that case?

[AnthonyL]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:34:00 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk

Post by Jethro_uk

Post by Martin Brown

[quoted text muted]

Surely the person who was driving it at the time will have to prove that
*they* were insured to drive it. Once seized by police then the owner
must demonstrate that they have legitimate insurance to drive it.

This is why ANPR for insurance in the UK is ... pants.
A car could whizz past an ANPR and be recorded as "insured" at the same
moment it hits another car and it emerges that the car *wasn't* insured
for the person driving it.

You're not advocating ANPR cameras be enhanced with face recognition
are you?

[Roland Perry]

Post by Martin Brown
Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is intended
to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians and cyclists
the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.
It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it is
heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent easily.

And what happens about the fire, when you crush the batteries?

[Martin Brown]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Martin Brown
Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is
intended to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians
and cyclists the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.
It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it is
heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent easily.

And what happens about the fire, when you crush the batteries?

I expect they will need a new crushing machine as well.
You can always remove the batteries before crushing it.
(but that wouldn't be half as much fun!)

But isn't that supposed to be the official fate of all non road legal
vehicles seized by the police ?

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Martin Brown
Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is
intended to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians
and cyclists the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.
It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it is
heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent easily.

And what happens about the fire, when you crush the batteries?

I expect they will need a new crushing machine as well.
You can always remove the batteries before crushing it.
(but that wouldn't be half as much fun!)
But isn't that supposed to be the official fate of all non road legal
vehicles seized by the police ?

Surely some sort of matey type contract could be secured with a ministers
neighbour to pay for the vehicles on the understanding they would be
broken and sold for spares ? Or would that undermine the manufacturers
ability to keep their prices ludicrously high ?

[Roger Hayter]

Post by Jethro_uk

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Martin Brown
Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is
intended to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians
and cyclists the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.
It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it is
heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent easily.

And what happens about the fire, when you crush the batteries?

I expect they will need a new crushing machine as well.
You can always remove the batteries before crushing it.
(but that wouldn't be half as much fun!)
But isn't that supposed to be the official fate of all non road legal
vehicles seized by the police ?

Surely some sort of matey type contract could be secured with a ministers
neighbour to pay for the vehicles on the understanding they would be
broken and sold for spares ? Or would that undermine the manufacturers
ability to keep their prices ludicrously high ?

I believe they can auction them if it seems that they are worth anything.

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Roger Hayter

Post by Jethro_uk

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Martin Brown
Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is
intended to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians
and cyclists the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.
It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it
is heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent
easily.

And what happens about the fire, when you crush the batteries?

I expect they will need a new crushing machine as well.
You can always remove the batteries before crushing it.
(but that wouldn't be half as much fun!)
But isn't that supposed to be the official fate of all non road legal
vehicles seized by the police ?

Surely some sort of matey type contract could be secured with a
ministers neighbour to pay for the vehicles on the understanding they
would be broken and sold for spares ? Or would that undermine the
manufacturers ability to keep their prices ludicrously high ?

I believe they can auction them if it seems that they are worth anything.

But that risks them reappearing on the road again - even with pinky
promises.

[Theo]

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Martin Brown
Although given the specification of the US cybertruck which is
intended to kill all lower forms of life like children, pedestrians
and cyclists the thing is probably not road legal in the UK.
It might present some problems to the crusher as well given that it is
heavily over engineered in stainless steel so as not to dent easily.

And what happens about the fire, when you crush the batteries?

I expect they will need a new crushing machine as well.
You can always remove the batteries before crushing it.
(but that wouldn't be half as much fun!)
But isn't that supposed to be the official fate of all non road legal
vehicles seized by the police ?

Depends whether you mean specifically 'police', but vehicles siezed for DVLA
offences can be auctioned:
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1582286/car-tax-evasion-inside-dvla-car-pound-clamped

They may be scrapped if they're not worth auctioning, but scrapped is not
the same as crushed - they can be stripped for parts recovery.

Crushing is the last step when the vehicle has been stripped down and most
things removed, so we're down to the metal frame. Or a Cat A insurance
write-off where even parts recovery is forbidden (sometimes when there's
been a death in the vehicle)

A stripped metal cube fit for melting down is worth more than a metal cube
full of awkward plastics, tyres, etc. So I doubt many vehicles are crushed
without stripping unless they're biohazard cat As.

Theo

[Tim Jackson]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 15:55:44 +0000, Andy Burns wrote...

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim Jackson
I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in order
to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track.

I can't now find the specific article I read. It's possible it may have
been padding out the present Cybertruck's woes with a more general
reference.

Post by Andy Burns
A BBC article states
"GMP said the car that was seized had been referred to Operation
Wolverine, which was established in 2007 to target drivers
without insurance. The owner will have to prove ownership and
correct insurance prior to release."
Which implies the police are treating it as a lack of insurance, rather
than an illegal vehicle? Maybe insurance is easiest to approve,and if
they somehow get it covered, they'd quickly find getting pulled again on
e.g. C&U legislation?

Yes, I get the impression that the insurance angle is the easiest one
for the police to pursue. However, it may be all they need, as I doubt
it's possible to get valid insurance for a vehicle that fails C&U?

See https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ar-AA1xmSBz

<quote>

A statement posted on Bury Police’s Facebook page said: "Legitimate
concerns exist around the safety of other road users or pedestrians if
they were involved in a collision with a Cybertruck."

It added that the Tesla "does not hold a certificate of conformity".

As a result, the Cybertruck was seized under S165 of the Road Traffic
Act, which gives police the ability to seize vehicles driven without a
licence or insurance. The driver was also reported.

[Andy Burns]

A statement posted on Bury Police’s Facebook page [...] added that
the Tesla "does not hold a certificate of conformity".
As a result, the Cybertruck was seized under S165 of the Road Traffic
Act, which gives police the ability to seize vehicles driven without a
licence or insurance.

Maybe it gets interesting if the USA owner can demonstrate it *is*
insured "over there" and as a visitor it doesn't need to be approved,
I'm sure Twitter will let everyone know if that's the case.

Others have been driven around London, with more high quality journalism

"Concerns over the vehicle's hard exterior and lack of yellow
brake lights mean it is banned in the UK"

<Loading Image...>

Apparently there's one for sale 7 miles from me

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Tim Jackson
I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in order
to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track.

It appears to have Albanian number plates, if a comparison of the photo and:
http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/EU_ALBA.html
is correct.

Post by Andy Burns
A BBC article states
"GMP said the car that was seized had been referred to Operation
Wolverine, which was established in 2007 to target drivers
without insurance. The owner will have to prove ownership and
correct insurance prior to release."
Which implies the police are treating it as a lack of insurance, rather
than an illegal vehicle? Maybe insurance is easiest to approve,and if
they somehow get it covered, they'd quickly find getting pulled again on
e.g. C&U legislation?

I suspect that there's an existing team dealing with no insurance cases,
which commonly also involve other infractions (no MOT, unroadworthy, no
licence, etc). They are probably the people best suited to handle a case
like this.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Post by Theo

Post by Tim Jackson
I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in order
to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track.

It appears to have Albanian number plates

Yes, the one in the London eye photo too, I think three cybertrucks were
imported from Albania by Yanni*



[*] Someone who had his 15 minutes of fame doing tasteless vinyl wraps
on cars on UKTVa few years ago.

[Davey]

On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 16:02:46 +0000

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Theo

Post by Tim Jackson
I read elsewhere that the car had been brought in from abroad in
order to drive it off-road on the Goodwood race track.

It appears to have Albanian number plates

Yes, the one in the London eye photo too, I think three cybertrucks
were imported from Albania by Yanni*
[*] Someone who had his 15 minutes of fame doing tasteless vinyl
wraps on cars on UKTVa few years ago.

I had the misfortune to see one of his episodes. Never again.

[Mark Goodge]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 15:16:32 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk

Post by Jethro_uk
< https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/
tesla-cybertruck-driver-loses-vehicle-30801494 >
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

To be sold in the UK, yes. The owner of this one tried to get around that by
registering and insuring it outside the UK.

For a short-term visitor to the UK that would work - we don't expect that
every French or Italian driver who arrives on the ferry or the shuttle has a
car which is fully street-legal in the UK, all we ask is that it's legal
where it was registered and that it doesn't stay in the UK longer than the
driver's temporary visit. US military personnel serving on US air bases in
the UK are, equally, allowed to have a US specification car for their
personal use. And there are similar exemptions for diplomats and other
official foreign temporary residents of the UK. But the legislation is
explicitly framed to prevent permanent UK residents taking advantage of that
loophole.

Post by Jethro_uk
Does this (admittedly poor) story suggest that Tesla didn't bother ? Or
that GMP are fairly incompetent ? I appreciate both can be true.

Tesla haven't tried to get it approved for UK (or even EU) use. Probably
because they know it wouldn't get approval.

Mark

[Theo]

Post by Tim Jackson
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 15:16:32 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk

Post by Jethro_uk
< https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/
tesla-cybertruck-driver-loses-vehicle-30801494 >
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

To be sold in the UK, yes. The owner of this one tried to get around that by
registering and insuring it outside the UK.

They can apply for an IVA (individual vehicle approval) - these are common
on Japanese imports, but apply to other vehicles new or old. eg it's not
unusual for car companies to import a new model which they have no plans to
sell in the UK, but get it approved for journalists etc to use on UK roads -
those get UK registration plates.

Post by Tim Jackson
For a short-term visitor to the UK that would work - we don't expect that
every French or Italian driver who arrives on the ferry or the shuttle has a
car which is fully street-legal in the UK, all we ask is that it's legal
where it was registered and that it doesn't stay in the UK longer than the
driver's temporary visit. US military personnel serving on US air bases in
the UK are, equally, allowed to have a US specification car for their
personal use. And there are similar exemptions for diplomats and other
official foreign temporary residents of the UK. But the legislation is
explicitly framed to prevent permanent UK residents taking advantage of that
loophole.

I'm assuming the use of 'use' here refers to the driver rather than the
ownership? Otherwise a US company could own the car and UK-resident
employees drive it.

Theo

[Mark Goodge]

On 18 Jan 2025 14:49:01 +0000 (GMT), Theo

Post by Theo

Post by Tim Jackson
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 15:16:32 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk

Post by Jethro_uk
< https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/
tesla-cybertruck-driver-loses-vehicle-30801494 >
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK public
road ?

To be sold in the UK, yes. The owner of this one tried to get around that by
registering and insuring it outside the UK.

They can apply for an IVA (individual vehicle approval) - these are common
on Japanese imports, but apply to other vehicles new or old. eg it's not
unusual for car companies to import a new model which they have no plans to
sell in the UK, but get it approved for journalists etc to use on UK roads -
those get UK registration plates.

Yes; I think the key aspect here is that a permanent UK resident can't use
(on public highways) a non-UK car that's registered elsewhere. If it's not
already type-approved for the UK, they need IVA. Either way, it needs to
have a UK registration.

(My previous car was a Japanese import that had been IVA'd by the importer.
I didn't know this until the garage doing my MOT one year told me I'd need
to wait a week for a part because it was a Japanese spec model and none of
the UK parts warehouses had it in stock).

Post by Theo

Post by Tim Jackson
For a short-term visitor to the UK that would work - we don't expect that
every French or Italian driver who arrives on the ferry or the shuttle has a
car which is fully street-legal in the UK, all we ask is that it's legal
where it was registered and that it doesn't stay in the UK longer than the
driver's temporary visit. US military personnel serving on US air bases in
the UK are, equally, allowed to have a US specification car for their
personal use. And there are similar exemptions for diplomats and other
official foreign temporary residents of the UK. But the legislation is
explicitly framed to prevent permanent UK residents taking advantage of that
loophole.

I'm assuming the use of 'use' here refers to the driver rather than the
ownership? Otherwise a US company could own the car and UK-resident
employees drive it.

The DVLA's guidance leaflet[1] says that "If you're a UK resident you must
not drive a vehicle displaying foreign number plates". So yes, it does apply
to the driver rather than the owner. Although the web version of the
guidance[2] says that if you bring the vehicle in yourself then the approval
and registration process is subsequent to that (with a 14 day deadline for
reporting the import to HMRC, which you have to do before you can apply for
IVA and register it), so I'm presuming that the legislation does have an
exemption for, at least, driving the vehicle from the dock or shuttle
terminal to your own premises. Unfortunately neither the web or PDF guidance
cites the relevant legislation, so I can't check my presumption.

[1] https://tinyurl.com/f5sej6w3 as shortened from
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6570647e739135000db03bd4/inf106-how-to-import-a-vehicle-into-the-united-kingdom.pdf

[2] https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk

Mark

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Jethro_uk
< https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/
tesla-cybertruck-driver-loses-vehicle-30801494 >
Doesn't a car need some sort of type approval before being on a UK
public road ?
Does this (admittedly poor) story suggest that Tesla didn't bother ? Or
that GMP are fairly incompetent ? I appreciate both can be true.